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Topic: 'THE HARD PROBLEM' REVIEWS - have you seen Damien's new play?

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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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RE: 'THE HARD PROBLEM' REVIEWS - have you seen Damien's new play?
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Yes, have a great time everyone! Can't wait to hear all about.

I'm looking forward to going next Saturday and meeting UJ for lunch!

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So nice of Damien to thank all the forumers for coming!

It is a shame he couldn't make it to the stage door this time, but I'm sure he had his good reasons.

You are all so lucky to have seen the play... how was it?!?! Cannot wait to hear!



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Damiac
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So...yes....I went to see The Hard Problem on Saturday

The main theme of the play is alturism vs self interest, with Hilary and Spike representing opposite sides of the argument. Most of the other characters are there to play out a rather insubstantial plot and they are all - as has been mentioned in other reviews - rather 2 dimentional.  It is a play of ideas rather than story or characters.  The only character who shows any development is Amal....and the only really rounded character is, surpringly, Krohl.....as both doting father and hard nosed businessman - who terrorizes Amal so much that he (rather brilliantly) faints, but whose final act is the only truly alturistic gesture in the entire play.

After the first couple of scenes, the episodes with Hilary and Spike felt repetative, and, to be honest, they both started to rather annoy me - I cannot understand why Hilary would continue to sleep with him!  Sadly I felt unable to like either of them very much - he was almost relentlessly aggressive, and she was constantly on the defensive.....to me she came across more as a victim than a bright young academic.  Her pursuit of goodness is ultimately rewarded and everybody loves her...but she is unsuccessful in her career - whereas Spikes egoism leads him to be pretty universally loathed (and unable to get laid!) but successful.

It was entertaining...witty with some genuinely funny lines.  And each scene worked well as a stand alone senario...but the truth is that strung together I felt that they didn't really make a particularly engaging theatrical experience.  I completely understand why so many reviews have commented on Damien's state of undress....it was really the most engaging aspect of the play!  It's fair to say that I have thought about it a lot since...but mostly wondering exactly what point Tom Stoppard was trying to make, rather than thinking about the issues which he introduced.

Don't get me wrong....it wasn't bad  - I really did laugh quite a lot.  And all of the actors did a fine job...they just didn't really have much to work with.....

 

 

 



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HI fifi, thanks for sharing your experience of the play in such an in depth way

I guess the (hard) problem with "a play of ideas" is whether the individual audience member is mentally engaged or interested in those ideas... I am interested to know, did Sroppard appear to be falling on one side of the fence or the other on the 'matter' of consciousness? Or was it more an exploration to provoke thought on the issues? and if so did it achieve that?

For me personally, there is enjoyment to be had in the externallisation of this debate, on stage, that interests me very much.. it may not be the same kind of theatre based on drama, but that is exciting to me.. even if the characters are mouthpieces for those ideas. And that may be what I expect from Stoppard too!

Spike does sound like a hard character to warm to, but how was Damien's portrayal of him? As a master of nuance, we know he excels as multidimensional characters, so I am wondering if my frustration will be to not see enough of that incredible range.

Would love to hear others' opinions!

And come on you lot... we need to here more about the extreme states of undress!!



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OK, domino...you poked me and I've got to repond!

The play doesn't really attempt to tackle the 'hard problem' in its broard sense.  Near the start of the play Hilary asks 'why do I feel sorrow?', but no attempt is really made to deal with these broarder questions.  It concentrates on the question of what is 'good'.  I haven't yet read the text....but I think it may well be a more engaging and thought provoking read than it was a theatrical experience!

Be warned - there are potentially some massive spoilers ahead!

Does Stoppard fall on one side of the fence?  At first glance....possibly - Hilary appears to be the sympathetic character.  But if you begin to closely analise the characters' motivations then I think it all becomes very blurred.  Hilary tells Spike that she 'has to' believe in god - but her belief is more in a kind of karma which will reward her acts of 'goodness' with divine protection for her child - which correlates entirely with Spike's egoist beliefs.  Almost every apparent act of alturism in the play comes with a condition....the hope of a return - mostly to get into bed with Hilary from what I can tell!....at least Spike is totally transparent about that!

The contradition to this is Krohl....the financier who operates hedge funds - traditionally a character who would be viewed as less than human!  There is a scene where he is having breakfast with his daughter, engaging with her as she prattles on about girl stuff, whilst also conducting buisness on the phone.....a geniunely loving father - although she is not his flesh and blood (and therefore - as an egoist would have it - there is nothing to be gained by caring for her) - and simultaneously a hard nosed buisnessman.  After his daughter leaves, Amal arrives....and Krohl begins to tear into his employee.  When Amal then faints, his concern for the man is apparent...and continues after he comes around, although he also continues to, simultaniously, be the unscrupulous employer.

This is the man who employs Amal (the egotist) and Spike (the egoist) to try and give him an edge in the financial markets, but uses his money to fund an institute which is headed by a dualist (Leo).  So many contradictions it makes my head hurt!  At the end of the play, when Hilary is leaving the insitute and it is known that she is his adopted daughter's real mother he asks if she's sure she wants to leave, offers her the chance to get to know her child and when she declines he says that if Cathy asks he will tell her about Hilary; he offers her money, but she declines again.   Then, right at the end, he leaves - once more talking business on the phone - and then comes back in, hands Hilary Cathy's security pass and leaves again still talking on the phone.  It is such a small gesture, it costs him nothing and is so casually done.  But it is - as they say - the thought that counts.  The fact that the thought has occured to him, in that very moment - whilst talking business on the phone - that Hilary does not have a photo of her child is slightly mindblowing.  It is - as I said before - the only truly alturistic gesture in the entire play.  Although I've gotta say I haven't yet drawn any conclusions as to what all of this means. lol!

But sadly, for me none of this really makes up for the lack of drama or any really engaging characters on the stage (and by engaging I don't necessarily mean likeable....) No - Spike is really not a multidimensional character and you will definately not see any of Damien's 'incredible range' - so you will have to console yourself with seeing much of his incredible physique.  And as my seat was downstairs at the side - almost on top of the stage - i saw it quite well..... smile

 



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Wow, this is the most detailed insight I have read fifi, thank you! I'm impressed you took all of this in on the first viewing! (and with DaMo's bedazzling pecs on display too! ) Much to ponder... and keeping an open mind that my interpretation and experience may be different. Not sure if I am being blinkered and over generous but I still maintain great art generates great thought...and is not always comfortable to look at / contemplate.
It sounds like there is humour too though. (and along with DaMo's bedazzling pecs, not all heavy?)

Isn't Stoppard using the altruism debate as his catalyst tool for the larger debate on consciousness then?

Also, what about DaMo's accent?


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It was very comfortable to look at/contempl...ah! Yes! ....see what you mean....

Sorry about yesterday!  Too much thinking out loud...or online...something....

"Isn't Stoppard using the altruism debate as his catalyst tool for the larger debate on consciousness then?"  Yes indeed - I would presume so....

It is entertaining, and I'm not the only person in the audience who was laughing...so I'm not alone in that!  And no - it wasn't at all heavy...just rather static.   In all but one of Spike's scenes he is alone with Hilary and his primary function (apart form looking good, obvioulsy) is to present one half of the debate.  But it is very entertaining conversation....he is aggressive (I mean intelectually, not physically) and thoughtlessly dismissive - but he is also clever and witty. The majority of the funny lines come from Spike....and we know Damien can be funny! A very early reference to vampire bats inevitably bought Hal to mind.  But Spike ain't Hal - he lacks Hal's.....sophisication...and his charisma... Spike is an open book....there really are no hidden depths....there is no hidden agenda!

Just in case you're wondering, Damien's state of undress for much of his scenes isn't totally gratuitous.....there is a element of underlying seduction in the 'bedroom scenes'.  He's not actually there for intelectual debate - that's just a sideline.  He wants to have/has just had sex with her and would like to again sometime.  Somebody said that it's unrealistic to have these sort of debates in those circumstances....I've gotta say - been there.... (tho obviously on a less intellectual level!)

But when you remove that element - in the party scene - when he has nothing at all to gain from being 'nice'. He really does turn into a little shit!  He is slightly drunk and arrogant and offends everybody - in a room already full of tension......but he is still funny! He ends up sitting laughing stupidly at nothing in particular - which is pretty funny itself - until Ursula goes and smacks him.  The most dramatic moment in the play!

OK - I'm  going to step away from this topic now......



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The more I hear the more excited I am about this play! The humour sounds epic, cannot wait for that!
(perhaps I need to step away too so there are no more spoilers!) thank you for spilling your thoughts fifi, I know I am not the only one reading and enjoying (so come and join in lurkers!!) and absolutely zero need to apologise! (though I am still longing to hear about the accent!)

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A few positive Twitter reviews, good to see!

 











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I have been so busy that I haven't got time to do my analysis about this play yet but I read yours fifi and I have to say, I agree with you in many things!

Before I continue I must warn, there might be spoilers!

At Saturday when we first time went to see the play my excitement was on the roof! My heart actually started beat so fast that I was sure that person next to me heard it but I calmed down after a while.

I really liked the play, it was a subject that I was really interested in and it gave me lot to ponder.

I loved and hated character Spike, he's witty and sexy but also very straightforward and rude. Although he apologies every time he notice when he have hurt someone, but it takes only a second to him come back to normal. Like he would have more manners than feelings, more theories than thoughts. 

Character Hilary was funny, beautiful, smart and of course center character. The fact she did continue dating Spike didn't annoy me, I think there was quite natural reason why she stayed with him.

The fact Spike was his tutor, I think it's not that uncommon to have a crush a person like that, they are somehow above you either with skills or education or mind, and that can be sometimes very attractive! And the fact if persons like that show affection back, flirt, that is always like a compliment and flattering. It may have nothing to do with love. Hilary was looking up for Spike, she didn't noticed he's "flaws" until she started to be more independent. 

Damien was absolutely fantastic, he did a great job as a Spike! Second time I went to see this play, at one point when he came to stage half naked something really, really wild did happen to his hair (I mean, it was messy at first time I saw the play, but on Monday's play it seemed like somebody exploded his hair) and I started to laugh immediately when he came to stage, even I have seen that scene before this was natural reaction! And the whole crowd laughed very much, and I think it was the hair that did the trick aside what he wore/and his reaction when he came to stage, cause the laughing started same second he stepped on the stage. At first time people started to laugh for his reaction (trying not to spoil everything and tell what was it). It was interesting how there was so many little different reactions from the crowd and even from the actors! (Somehow in my head I thought it could be quite the same).

We talked about Damien's nudity in this play and second time I went to watch this, one point when Damien... Well.. Come from shower and start to dress up, we didn't saw anything inappropriate of course, he was wearing robe and facing away from the crowd. But there was woman sitting on the balcony right above him and her face caught my attention in the corner of my eye when Damien started to dress, so I actually stared her when she was sitting there her mouth hanging open and sort of a smile in her face, she looked really happily surprised biggrin I giggled myself it was so priceless! Man next to him didn't look that happy. Damien was basically mostly without any proper clothes the whole time, didn't bother me at all..

It was very entertaining and I liked when we did have a plot we could follow in this play, twists and turns, but I understand that subject as hard as this, it's hard to make play entertaining, funny all the time. There was lots of moments when characters talked about consciousness and were argued about different theory's. Me personally liked the moment when Spike and Hilary discussed about religion. But not everyone is in to that. You left the theatre lots of different thoughts in your head, rather than laughing with enjoyment.

Olivia was lovely and she was amazing as Hilary, I think she had the most hardest part in the play (I don't see why anyone couldn't agree) and she did good job keeping play sort of, 'on going' all the time and you didn't have time to get bored or uninterested cause her reactions and wonderful skill keep focus on her kept everything moving. 

Some of the characters developed during the play (I think Amal and Hilary mostly) and theories they hold on so hard earlier sort of changed, they were open minded in the end. But Spike and everyone else sort of refused to see things differently and only gave their theories back and argued, sometimes they gave up the argument one reason or another. Or at least that how it felt to me.

Gags were good, didn't much like the music, could have been thousands different choices for that play, plot was good, actors were good, long arguments were not so good (too much to ponder, and before you have time to actually start to think about your own opinion the new argument comes). 

It was pure joy to see Damien first time on stage and I wouldn't have gone there another time unless I wouldn't have liked it! 

There were 3 different actors who played character Krohl's daughter, don't remember who was it on Saturday but her performance was much more lively and better than the one on Monday. I mean, if I compare those two the one on Saturday was brilliant and one on Monday was good. 



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Fifi & Jozie, thank you so much for your thorough and insightful writeups!  It's got my mind spinning with questions and answers to lots of the points you both brought up.  Too many at the moment to compose a decent reply.  And perhaps I'm not really qualified to have anything significant to add, since I have yet to see the play.

 

I did have one quick thing, about what fifi said, that Krohl's act of giving Hilary a picture of her daughter is the only truly altruistic gesture in the play.  One could argue that Hilary's sacrifice is the ultimate altruistic gesture.  First, she gave up her daughter.  Presumably as she was a teenager, to give her daughter the best possible future that she felt she couldn't give her.  Second, After over a decade of praying and hoping that her daughter indeed has everything she would wish for her, she learns that her employer is the adoptive father, has the opportunity to meet her, but refuses.  Not knowing all the details, or formulating my own interpretations yet, I would guess she feels that her daughter is indeed in good hands and does not wish to cause any upheaval in the father/daughter relationship and decides the best course for all of them is to not meet her.  That's a powerful sacrifice, an act of true altruism.  

 

 



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Jozie, thanks so much for sharing all about your experience with the play - the excitement in your words is palpable, a joy to read! The part about the lady with her mouth hanging open is hilarious!


I am still pndering all you have said, but being a pianist, zoned in on your comment on the music.. I understand it is Bach piano music? or is there more? I have assumed there is a reason for Bach... (mentioned before won't bore and repeat) relating to the theme of the play.



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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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I'm certain I'll be the open-mouthed woman tomorrow when I go to see this!

Meeting up with UJ for lunch first, then we'll meet up afterwards for some stage door hanging about, then dessert to mull over the day's events! Looking forward to meeting a fellow forumer for the first time!

I MUST NOT FORGET MY TICKET!!

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rosie - hope you both have a fantastic time tomorrow.



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Have an amazing time Rosie! x

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Thanks everyone! Can't wait to tell you all about it. Off to meet UJ now.

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Have a blast Rosie & UJ.  I'm more excited to hear about you two meeting up than anything else!



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Damiac
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Finally I can come on this thread! I've had to avoid so much of this board to avoid spoilers.

First, thank you, Rosie, for a lovely afternoon. It was great meeting you and your company made the day all the better.

Then there was the play itself. I enjoyed it a lot. Cerebral, yes, and not without emotion or intriguing characters. The more I thought about it - religion vs science, nurture vs nature, science and corporations, morals vs biology, the more there's obviously going on in this play. I suspect there's more to appreciate with a second viewing so I'll be booking a seat for the live broadcast. I didn't recognise Anthony Calf at first. It was a nice bonus to see him again. And I remember Olivia's Desdemona so it was great seeing her again. And what a pleasure to see Damien, in the play and afterwards too. For some reason I lied to him, told him I hadn't seen any Stoppard since Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. Not true. Then I took a shaky picture of him for Rosie. Must try harder in future.

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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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It was lovely to meet UJ today (and a certain somebody else, but more of that later)! We had a great lunch and a good natter about writing, theatre and Damien.

Not sure I can say anything intelligent and coherent about the themes of the play yet. I think I need longer to digest yet.

The play was very witty. I thought Damien might have been in it more but you do get to see a lot of him! Going to the gym is really paying off, he is very beautifully toned.

I loved the light installation. It was beautiful to look at and i liked the way it 'reacted' to the music. Olivia Vinall was great, very engaging and sympathetic. I didn't hate Spike. Don't get me wrong, he is an obnoxious arsehole but he is very passionate and stubborn about what he believes and won't accept anyone else's point of view. I thought Hilary was the same though - she is form in her beliefs but she is much more sympathetic character.

And in other news - UJ and I met Damien! I asked if I could have an autograph and a picture. He asked my name and I told him so he then said "Hi Rosie". I said that I enjoyed the play and he said thank you for coming. UJ spoke to him about another Stoppard play. I said we were from the forum and he said, great. UJ said that she hadn't been on the forum for a while because she didn't want any spoilers about the play. I then said, "domino said to say that she sends you her love". He said "that's very kind". He gave me my programme back and he had written Hi Rosie lots of love Damien! I asked if I could have a photo and UJ kindly took a photo. It was a bit blurry so Damien suggested we move so that the sun wouldn't bleach the colours. So we moved and UJ took another photo. I thanked him for saying hi and he went. I was really nervous and shaky and he was clearly on his way somewhere so we let him go.

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Oh and domino I think he uses an English accent. He sounded American in his first line but I think he was doing a voice because of what he was talking about. His accent seemed English with a slight Irish twang. I don't know what anyone else thought?

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YAY! How awesome you got to meet UJ and Rosie, love how the forum had brought peeps together in real life.

UJ, so good to read you here... and read your thoughts on the play, glad you enjoyed it too. Yes, to call it a rich ideas packed play seems to be a bit of an understatement - I can well imagine one viewing leaves a mind spinning impression but the fullness of all the concepts would be hard to take in immediately. Interesting... that's the first time that I've considered the actual structure of the play itself and the way it can be received may be demonstraring something about consciousness...

Rosie, first, woohoo!!! so happy you had your stage door moment, and had your photo taken with Damo, what a gent coming to the stage door after a 2 play day! molonyeffect thanks for sharing all the details (and for passing on my message).
Second, thanks for your insight into the play, captivating..The light installation must be amazing in real life and it sounds like it wasn't the only beautiful thing to look at I can imagine you have lots more thoughts to filter through.. look forward to hearing them when they *and you!) land.

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Woke up this morning and had a thought. I don't think Hilary was being that ultraistic at the end. Sure, she didn't want to confuse Cathy just because she was there, but she was more eager to pursue her new passion for philosophy in New York. Which did she do first? Ensure she had a need to be somewhere else and then write Jerry? For all her beliefs regarding science (and there's a thought, her 'beliefs' regarding 'science') Hilary never looks to her own behaviour for any answers.

And I'll add it was lovely seeing Damien again. I need to develop the habit of actually being able to talk to him. You know, and not lie like I did. I have seen other Stoppard!

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Yaaaay! So awesome you get to meet Damien, I'm so happy for you! Oh he's such a gentleman! aww I understand those shaky hands very well UJ, it's all about feeling the Molony effectwink 

So nice you get to meet each other UJ and Rosie, I hope one day I could meet you two too!smile

UJ, I went to see this play two times (got cheap ticket from the front) and I think it was good cause first time you go to see this play you have so much to ponder that it's hard to focus on the play and story itself. Second time was good move and if they show this on my cinema I'm going to see it in there again.

Rosie, those hard hours in gym have indeed changed him a bit, but I still wonder is this change something he have wanted or did he do it because some role (Tiger Raid?). Cause he's always been sporty, but there's a change if you look back BH pics. Very nice work from him!

I was wondering about that American accent too, in one review there where talk about his "accent which change from America to Irish" or something like that. I got that impression that he was trying to talk very English but that Irish accent pushed through when he was having an strong feelings and middle of the arguments (quite understandable, as Irish it might be a bit impossible to completely shut down your accent, especially if you are Irish and furiouswink ).

I liked the light installation too, it was very clever set piece cause it took your attention while they changed the set on stage and it looked like brain nerve system which was suitable for the play. The music, yeah Bach was it? I just wish they have selected some other music, it was cheerful and jolly and for some reason I thought it doesn't fit in it. But the new years lighting on the light set was fantastic idea, whoever came up with that light set must congratulate him/herself, very brilliant!



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We will meet one day, Jozie!

About Damien's accent, the very first lines out of his mouth, he sounded American. No idea what the line was, maybe he was quoting someone American? Otherwise I thought he was using his own accent, or rather someone who's losing their accent because of where they've moved to ... Mm.

And another thought about altruism. Did Amal realise what it would cost him to tell the truth? If so, then he's the only one who really made a sacrifice.

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UJ/Rosie - It's great that you got to meet up and see this together!  Glad you enjoyed the play and thrilled for you both that you got the chance to meet Damien.  I saw Rosie's picture on twitter - lovely!  And it didn't look shakey at all UJ!



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