Please note: there will be spoilers on this topic for anyone who has not seen the end of Being Human series 5 and the Exclusive additional scene on the DVD.
Happy Hal's recruitment day!
To mark the occasion when Hal ( severely wounded in the battle of Orsha ) was made a vampire by an army surgeon, we have a special POLL!
but before we do... let's remind ourselves of Hal's speech (written by Lord Toby Whithouse) about his choice to become a vampire in his prequel:
"I was born in a brothel, I don't even know which of the six illiterate whores was my mother but when, one by one, each of them were lost to disease or violence, I mourned them, and they were my blood, I ran away to sea, ended up in Gdansk, fell into the Battle of Orsha, ended up on the wrong side of a Muscovite lance.. by the time I was a young man I'd seen every dark corner of the human heart, so when the army surgeon offered me eternal life in return for what little god had left me of my soul, I accepted, not because I feared death, but because I could think of nothing that deserved my loyalty any more".
What an excellent question for recruitment day, domino!
I have to admit, with that brilliant speech in mind, I stared at the poll like a deer caught in headlights for about 5 minutes. I believe at that time Hal felt that he deserved nothing. He was lost. Since birth he had to fight his way through life. He was broken and alone. Becoming a vampire, becoming immortal, gave him a purpose. It was, as he lied dying, a better option because I suppose he felt he would belong...
...but then he met Leo and then Pearl. They proved to him his true worth not as a monster but as a man. They brought out the best in him and I am sure he in them. After they were gone, we once again saw him struggle to suppress the vampire within him. This struggle was different however because I feel that he truly wanted to be human, to do good, to have friends... Finally people came into his life (Annie, Tom, Alex in addition to Leo and Pearl) that made him feel more human than he ever felt beforehand. Especially Alex. I truly felt, in my most humblest of opinions, that Hal wanted humanity more than ever in his 500 years on Earth. Finally there was a reason to belong, to live. To be human.
And that's just me rambling and getting all sorts of emotional.
I cried like a baby at the end. It was a very unpleasant sight. However, the look on Hal's face when he saw his reflection in the mirror?
Definitely Human. I know he killed whole phonebooks of people but I think he deserved to get his wish and become human. He did after all spend years trying to beat his evil side and be as human as possible and there are a lot of vampires who embraced their evil side and slaughtered everyone in site until the day they where turned to dust.
He tried to be the best he could and I think that's what we all do too.
Lisa
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Lisa
...I bet your skin tastes of salt.....I think I'm going to hurt you.....
Maybe in reality, given his fearsome reputation he didn't deserve to become human. But he has spent five centuries either good or bad, fighting against the blood lust, embracing it only to fight against it again. It would be nice to see what human Hal could be like. I was another one who cried like a proverbial baby when he went to that mirror. How he didn't trust himself to look at first and when he did, how he touched his face. I wonder what went through his mind at that point? Damien played that part perfectly, subtly and with heartbreaking simplicity.
Well I've gone against the grain and gone for vampire!
Human Hal seemed to have had a pretty shocking time of it by the time he became a vampire which just proves to me that being a vampire may have it's ups and downs but so does being a human.
Another reason being human was such a brilliant show was because even though Hal was a vampire you could still connect with him and see human like qualities in him and his struggles. I didn't like human Hal, I preferred vampire Hal. He had been doing it for so long that even awkward vampire Hal was pretty comfortable in some ways.
Sorry, now I'm just rambling so I'll stop lol x
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Sooner or later, we all go back to being the monsters we truly are!
What ending did we want for Hal as a character? I think one where he didn't die/sacrifice himself. I think any ending that didn't end like that as such, is a happy one for him.
What ending did we want as an audience?: Initial answer, not Wolf Shaped Bullet #2 or even a Ghost Shaped Bullet because right up until Rook showed up at HH, that's what i thought would happen, i had a horrible sense of (panicky) deja vu.
What ending did Hal deserve....now there's a loaded question!
Truthfully? The Hal he became at the end? He deserved to die. He even said to Crumb while strapped in the chair that he was irredeemable. I wonder whether if to save the world meant sacrificing himself, he would've done it? I think 'good Hal' would, unquestioned but bad Hal? not a chance. If he wouldn't use his own blood in the original 1918 ritual, there's no chance he'd sacrifice himself to save the world. I think Bad Hal is also Pretty Selfish Hal too. If Good Hal had prevailed then my answer would probably have been different but Bad Hal would've reeked havoc on the world, been unstoppable, the literal poster boy for their cause.
I think the ending that we got was what we expected and was right. That it was subjective, that we could interpret it in our own way but i liked that 'sting in the tail' that it was ultimately a dream. Given how Being Human was written all along, a definitive 'happy ever after' ending couldn't have worked in that sense. I think it was the only ending we could've got or hoped for.
And plus, with the ending it did get, should someone decide to resurrect it on television in the future, theoretically it could be. It wasn't all neatly tied up in a bow.
-- Edited by rubyrosettared on Monday 9th of September 2013 04:31:13 PM
Thank you su!! - I'm totally with you all the way. And you have very succinctly, and beautifully put what would've taken me pages to say (I know....I tried!) so I'm not going to add anything else......well - not at the moment anyway. lol!
Results so far: Human Hal is winning by 71.4% over 28.6% for vampire Hal!
Agree? Disagree? cast your vote in the poll above!
Su, I am glad someone has gone for vampire, the more you think about this question, the harder it becomes to answer, for the reasons you give, but also..... as a vampire being a vampire, Hal was very comfortable in his own skin. As a vampire trying to be Human, he was angst ridden and tormented.
there are also different questions within this question...
what ending did we want for Hal as a character?
what ending did we want as the audience?
what ending did Hal deserve?
what ending felt right and respectful to Being Human as a show?
Lol, domino.....that's just mean. My first reaction to this poll was (depressingly predictable!) 'well...that depends....' But the question uses the words 'you and 'want', so that's how I based my vote.......
Are you really trying to make me hit the forum max for a post?! lol!
Su, Fifi: Awesome points...and this is what made the poll so very hard to answer. I really did stare at it for 5 - 8 minutes, I wasn't even kidding.
I'd definitely like to take a stab at those questions once I am through with work/studying tonight (or early tomorrow). They're some really deep questions, domino. *brain explodes, emotions leak out everywhere*
Ending....you see - that's the first problem I have. I didn't want any ending....I wanted it to just go on and on and on......
But to try and look past that - before the final show aired, the only ending I knew I didn't want was for them to become human. It is unsatisfactory in every way I can imagine - but this is about what I did want.....so I'll try again....
Hal was, quite simply, glorious as a vampire being a vampire, and wasn't always angst ridden as a vampire being a human - and even when he was it was still glorious!....so my vote stays vampire - and I don't even have to feel guilty because it's fiction......but I will put that aside too and imagine what ending I would want if I had a heart!
And that has to be what he would've wanted for himself.....
It wasn't the bloodlust which ultimately pushed hal over the edge...but I don't think it was a love/romance issue either. In the prequel Hal told Leo that he wanted Leo to believe that he could be saved....I think it was Alex's (and Tom's) loss of faith in him which tipped the balance. He couldn't see "the point" in continuing the struggle - he needed to have somebody to believe in him, to make it worthwhile. But what was it inside himself that made him go off and kill those people in the pub - was it the vampire or the human? His initial decision to become a vampire was due to his own disillusionment in humanity - the assumption is that at some point his viewpoint changed. But we don't know what he himself was like as a human.......(in the DVD extra he is not real human hal....he is dreamy human Hal - or the version he (and/or tom and alex) wanted him to be!!)
I don't think that Hal would have any expectations to become human - he just wanted to live as a human (to assimulate...as he said to Alex). I would want him to be to be able to achieve that....to be able to control himself without the need for a cage, to have faith in himself and live a 'normal' life.....forever and with an extraordinary amount of swagger - ie....as a vampire.
So - that's my answer to the first question......
lol!
-- Edited by fifi on Tuesday 10th of September 2013 04:16:58 PM
great to read your thoughts Lisa, all interesting points to ponder
Whether Hal was irredeemable? In episode 5 when he was tied to the chair again and Natasha walked in, untied him and proceeded to cut her own throat, he not only resisted gushing, live, blood but wanted to save her.. and when she begged him not to, he let her go. in that moment, height of withdrawals, his 'goodness' (for want of a better word) rose to the surface, his instinct faced with a crisis situation was not one of a vampire. In that moment, to me he has vanquished his demons.
In the end it was NOT his bloodlust that pushed him over and unleashed the vampire in full force, it was unrequited love, or, betrayal of his heart which he had opened to Alex. The wall came back up and he turned his back on the human world, almost because there was again, 'nothing left' for him here (as he said in his prequel) so it was almost like re-choosing to become a vampire.
Actually i do agree with you on his being 'irredeemable'. You make an excellent point. He was fighting and fighting against the natural instinct of a vampire, even against heightened stress and the beginning of withdrawal, for him to try and save Natasha rather than feed from her (though he did offer to recruit her to save her) says a lot about his character. Maybe at that point he was still hoping he'd 'win'. It was Alex's rejection, for want of a better description that finally pushed him over the edge. I hadn't thought of that. Good points.
It also, to me, mirrors what ultimately became Mitchell's downfall. The Box Tunnel Massacre happened because of the explosion at the funeral parlour, of Kemp and Co's machinations, of Lucy's duplicity. He was rejected by humanity ultimately. It seems to be matters of the heart that undo our vampires isn't it?
Exploring some tonight and found this and...well...I can't answer right now. Too many words!
Both? Neither?
I do believe I shall have to expound upon this elsewhere and send a link my my thinky thoughts are more in order.
I went to a panel recently at Dragon*Con all about this, and it ended up being one heck of a fun and spirited fandom debate. I had a great time arguing for my particular headcanon, and so did the other handful of folks who really got into the discussion. The rest of the audience seemed to all have their own opinions, too.
That's the beauty of the ending. Everyone is right...sort of...
But yes...more words later.
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You can do this. You can do this. You can do this.
I've been doing some series re-watching over the last week, or so....and have been left with the thought - why on earth would any of them want to be human? We tend to use the word 'humanity' to suggest kindness, empathy. But, with only a few exceptions, the humans in Being Human are cruel, selfish, and...well, inhumane!
Kemp is the obvious example - although I think his assistant was even worse....he didn't have the fanaticism (or insanity) that Kemp had - from what I could tell, he was just in it for the voyeurism. But there's also the neighbours in the 'paedo' episode (including Fleur...who was very quick to judge!) Rook, Alastair, Crumb's boss...and workmates (he turned up covered in blood, said he'd been hit by a car, and his boss just fires him, and everyone else ignores him.....??!) Even Patsy who, even though she makes me laugh a lot, wasn't exactly nice; if she was a male manager who behaved towards female staff in the same way I'm not sure it would seem so funny (hmmm - I feel very hypocritical all of a sudden!)
I know there are some lovely humans in the series too - Josie, Hugh, Sam, the medium guy who's name escapes me... - but they do seem to be a bit in the minority. The "well done" monologue which Hatch/the devil broadcasts from the studio is depressingly justified.
"To want it is to have it" indeed.....they are far closer to their idealised idea of what humanity is, than an awful lot of humans are...
ONLY 10 votes though?!? to all reading this topic, please do a clickety click above!
Yes, agree Lisa, it is perhaps a parallel to Mitchell's final undoing too.
fifi you are right.... incredible posts.. thank you my brain is on fire!
"In the prequel Hal told Leo that he wanted Leo to believe that he could be saved....I think it was Alex's (and Tom's) loss of faith in him which tipped the balance. He couldn't see "the point" in continuing the struggle - he needed to have somebody to believe in him, to make it worthwhile. But what was it inside himself that made him go off and kill those people in the pub - was it the vampire or the human? His initial decision to become a vampire was due to his own disillusionment in humanity - the assumption is that at some point his viewpoint changed. But we don't know what he himself was like as a human.......(in the DVD extra he is not real human hal....he is dreamy human Hal - or the version he (and/or tom and alex) wanted him to be!!)"
For me, the collective Hals...good hal bad hal human hal.... are only as distinct as Hal believes them to be, or at least they are the ones at the "surface"...
perhaps there is no unified one Hal as such but there is a core that has evolved over the years .....perhaps a NEW monster that has grown inside him DESPITE the vampire....and I certainly do not believe it was simply 'Bad Hal' who made the decision to turn everyone in that pub. Unless bad hal is a metaphor for Hal's accumulated pain.
Indeed, fifi. I suppose it's because they've been pushed outside of humanity that makes them ask themselves "What kind of monster do I want to be?", a question they have to ask once they find themselves further up the food chain with the instincts of a predator and an intellect which allows them to play with their food in more ways than one. If the monster takes over, then the good side of humanity is what's been lost so 'being human' becomes a dream.
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"Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realise you're wrong."
This is so hard because we fell in love with Hal as a vampire! but was it the human part we loved or the vampire part? In the end I went for human because he struggled against being a vampire and what a vampire basically is, and when he was bad Hal he basically was a killing machine, and I love the glimpse we had of human Hal. Not a Greta argument but there u go!!! :D xxx
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My name is Ciara and I've been on the Kia-Ora!!!! :D
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They're some really deep questions, domino. *brain explodes, emotions leak out everywhere*
