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Topic: POLL: HAL vs FLIGHT - WHO IS THE MOST TRAGIC CHARACTER?

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WHO IS THE MOST TRAGIC CHARACTER? [16 vote(s)]

HAL YORKE (Being Human)
68.8%
ALBERT FLIGHT (Ripper Street)
31.3%
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POLL: HAL vs FLIGHT - WHO IS THE MOST TRAGIC CHARACTER?
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I felt Flight's decision not to accompany Evelyn was made under the cloud of his own shame, having deceived her and or her having seen through his deception... on top of his existing feelings of despair.

I wonder though.. if one of his options after the end of series 2 would be to go after her? I hate to think of it but if there was no more Flight that would be the perfect exit...



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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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Flight going to New York was one of my thoughts too about what could happen to Flight. Reid could help him to get to America (Shine might still want to kill Flight - if Shine survives the boxing match) and Flight could go and find Evelyn. It would be nice for him to have a happy ending. He could be a policeman in New York where nobody would know about his past.

Not sure what Evelyn would think about him if she knew the truth that he was a policeman who was trying to use her to arrest her father though! She seems pretty feisty and would give Flight a run for his money!

I would also be exceedingly jealous - I love Flight!

I also want what happens in my fan fic to happen to Flight! He gets to stay at Leman Street and falls in love. Perfect for all of us!

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Can I change my vote??? wink

After reading fifi's argument for Hal, and RP's insights on Flight, I did some thinking. 

We all agree, both men had tragic childhoods that led them to make unwise decisions.  Both have been guilty of hurting/killing people.  Both have shown remorse and are trying to do the right thing.  

We could argue that Hal is worse, less deserving of our sympathy and the title of most tragic character, based on the sheer amount of carnage he's caused and how much enjoyment he had over it.  Or we could argue he is the most tragic because he's a victim of his curse, his slip back to bad is inevitable and it is futile for him to fight, yet he does continue to fight.  

We could argue that Flight isn't as tragic, he is no angel, willingly participated in crimes, not only directly in the things he did, but also turning a blind eye to Shine's nefarious activities.  Or he is the more tragic, being the victim of circumstances. He was taken advantage of, Shine had been like a father to him, and by Shine's words, he was fairly sheltered from the truth. (though he knew about Merrick) 

I think the key to a "ligthbulb" moment for me is in the Being Human DVD extra scene.  

There are so many ways that Flight can get out of this predicament/redeem himself and ultimately go on to have a happy life.  He can help Reid and co put Shine away, have his past deeds/involvement expunged from records, and continue working as a copper at H Division - surely Reid, Jackson & Drake would recognize that he has seen the error of his ways, and none of them are exactly saints... He could serve time for his deeds, get out and find honest work.  He could seek out Evelyn, as domino suggested.  There are many scenarios we could come up with, all plausible, that would change Flight's life completely around, that would make up for his past and he could potentially be happy.

Hal's happiness is his death.  That's it.  In the DVD scene, what does he lament most when they realize they are in one of Hatch's dreams?  His words: "I was going to die one day."

They are human.  He is free of the monster.  He has his best mate and his lover (presumably, all we see her do is eat!), they have "everything they could ever want".  And yet, still, the one thing he looks forward to is?  His death.

That, in my view, makes him the most tragic character.

 

 

And now excuse me while I go watch some Being Human and sob like a baby...



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Damiac
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This is why there should be no hasty decisions and good argument first! Very good arguments everyone. Made me think things more deeply...
aw Whimsy. I think it's good thing in the end nobody can't change their votes, I think that is the reason why people think about things and starts argument about them which makes these topics alive!

I feel so empty after watching again all seasons of BH. After while I watched seasons 4&5 again. I wish Suspects would start again....



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I want to give Hal some Kia-Ora

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Rosie, your fanfic would be the ideal continuation for Flight, and keep him in the series, which is totally the best case scenario and one I am sure we all long for!

wow, your argument is heartfelt and convincing whimsy... there are responses bubbling in my mind but I may leave it for now as it would border on philosophising about the certainty of death and Hal's immortaility. I absolutely agree that the tug at the heartstrings is intense when it comes to Hal's 'living' reality... but there is still a larger picture than that, for me.

I'm loving this poll and everyones' thoughts..... one thing we can all agree on is Damien does uniquely bring such a nuanced and deep, layered persona, and the highest level of intensity in tragic characters and creates the highest level of engagement with them.

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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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As I don't know Hal (yet!) I haven't voted but I definitely think that Hal wanting his death but not being able to achieve that because he is immortal and has to live with his struggle/guilt/complex emotions forever (if I've understood it right) is very tragic. Flight is definitely all about survival - everything he has done is because he wanted to survive. As I say I don't feel qualified to offer more than that as I haven't watched Being Human so don't know Hal's story or motivations.

It certainly sounds like Hal is probably an even deeper and more complex character than Flight. Adding the supernatural element to Hal's story adds a layer that doesn't exist for Flight , his story is grounded in the reality of 19th century London, its poverty, its crime and the treatment of the Irish at this time. It sounds like we all agree that Flight's future has more possibilities for optimism.

This is a really interesting poll - I'm glad that other people question the motivations and depth to the characters like I do - it's good to know I'm not alone!

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Damiac
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Rosie - if you're into the whole analising character thing, then I'm almost wary of recommending that you get aquainted with Hal.....it can lead to serious obsession!

The biggest tragedy of all is that he is no longer on my tv....



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fifi wrote:

Rosie - if you're into the whole analising character thing, then I'm almost wary of recommending that you get aquainted with Hal.....it can lead to serious obsession!

The biggest tragedy of all is that he is no longer on my tv....


 THIS!



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papillon... pamplemousse... bibliothèque... un baiser
A lilt in his voice.  Every sentence like music...
#kisskisskiss 
A terrible beauty is born.
Love me some #Jacksass

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RPLovesIpswich wrote:

As I don't know Hal (yet!) I haven't voted but I definitely think that Hal wanting his death but not being able to achieve that because he is immortal and has to live with his struggle/guilt/complex emotions forever (if I've understood it right) is very tragic. Flight is definitely all about survival - everything he has done is because he wanted to survive. As I say I don't feel qualified to offer more than that as I haven't watched Being Human so don't know Hal's story or motivations.

It certainly sounds like Hal is probably an even deeper and more complex character than Flight. Adding the supernatural element to Hal's story adds a layer that doesn't exist for Flight , his story is grounded in the reality of 19th century London, its poverty, its crime and the treatment of the Irish at this time. It sounds like we all agree that Flight's future has more possibilities for optimism.

This is a really interesting poll - I'm glad that other people question the motivations and depth to the characters like I do - it's good to know I'm not alone!


 Rosie, if you are as drawn to in-depth characters as we all are, acquaint yourself with Hal Yorke should be at the top of your lsit, really it should.... there are infinite layers to his character, quite literally..possibly moreso than any other character I have 'met' in visual media or literature (aware how big a statement that is!). No you are sooo not alone!



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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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It sounds like an acquaintance with Hal Yorke is going to be well worth it Domino, but with Fifi's warning that it could lead to serious obsession, it might need to wait until I've done my exams at the end of May (3 hours of media law and 3 hours of public administration for my MA in Journalism)! Particularly as one of my friends is already thinking of staging an intervention over my Flight obsession after I jokingly said this weekend that I wanted to get a pet so I could name it Albert Flight! I think I realised that things might be going too far when I emailed a friend yesterday to find out her flight details and spelt flight with a capital F!

Rosie

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best of luck with your exams Rosie!goodluck

Straying a tad off topic here........ Far be it for me to encourage an obsession... but there are worse things to be obsessed about! At least you are clear it is a fictional character, there is no harmng anyone. Distraction and escapism are important things in life as long as they are in balance with everything else..... and is it obsession, or passion?

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Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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Thanks for the good luck message, Domino!

And thanks for the reassurance regarding obsession/passion ;)



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Damiac
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Yes....Good luck, Rosie!

To continue wandering off topic...... I agree with domino that Hal is the most complex and compelling character - ever!  Hence my obsession.  My passion for him is an entirely different kettle of ball games......

And yes - this entire forum is simply littered with casual BH quotes - and phrases such as "an aquaintance with...." (which you were so led into saying, Rosie!) can cause much amusement (...or is that just me?!) 

I truly envy you being able meet Hal for the first time....the perfect reward getting through your exams!



-- Edited by fifi on Monday 28th of April 2014 09:17:59 PM

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".....he'll be with you while you dream"

Marvellous Molonian Moderator
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Thanks for the good luck Fifi! I'm looking forward to finding out why "an acquaintance with" is amusing!
If I watch too much Ripper Street (is there such a thing?) I find myself talking like a Victorian but nobody else seems to get it!

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Molonian
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Last week would say Hal without another thought, warming to Flight now, but still Hal for me... Having two persona's gives him more than an edge....

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Good Hal? Bad Hal? Really don't mind.... 

 
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