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Topic: Damien Molony and Toby Whithouse on 'Cool Gothic and the New Vampire' Panel at BFI Event

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domino l - l - l
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RE: Damien Molony and Toby Whithouse on 'Cool Gothic and the New Vampire' Panel at BFI Event
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to our female members what say you to this comment from Toby W, is this how you felt about Hal?

“The vampire is the ultimate bad boy: they think: I can save him.” (on female fans)




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fifi
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Fuck no!!

I can't speak for the whole of womankind either - I'm an individual, not a representative.  In fact this question did bug me a bit....especially when there was only one woman on the panel.  Why not ask what appeals specifically to men about vampires?.....do they all see themselves as the ultimate bad boy who will be saved by a good woman?!  I'm sure that the appeal to woman is as varied as the appeal to men.

But personally I want to burn Hal's bloody marigolds and apron.....

The point is that it's fiction.....fantasy, and what I want from my entertainment is escapism...so why would I want to save him?

My absolute favourite female character from Being Human was....Daisy!!!  And Daisy never seemed to have any interest is saving Ivan.......



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wabbit89
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fifi wrote:

Fuck no!!

I can't speak for the whole of womankind either - I'm an individual, not a representative.  In fact this question did bug me a bit....especially when there was only one woman on the panel.  Why not ask what appeals specifically to men about vampires?.....do they all see themselves as the ultimate bad boy who will be saved by a good woman?!  I'm sure that the appeal to woman is as varied as the appeal to men.

But personally I want to burn Hal's bloody marigolds and apron.....

The point is that it's fiction.....fantasy, and what I want from my entertainment is escapism...so why would I want to save him?

My absolute favourite female character from Being Human was....Daisy!!!  And Daisy never seemed to have any interest is saving Ivan.......

Oh, hell yes about Daisy! She was awesome!

Funny. I love Alex, but I do get a bit irritated with her for liking Hal. Lusting after Hal? Sure. Actually wanting to be with Hal? Um...no. It boils down to, "This is Alex. That drank my blood." And that's why what they have (whatever it is) is extremely complicated - and, forgive me certain types of Halex shippers (I am one of you, but a very specific type, I'm afraid), but I don't think it would work in the end. Then again, nothing works in the end for a vampire. That's why they're tragic creatures.

Which is, I think, the appeal for me. Well, it's two things. One, the bad boy attraction. Let's face it, Jean Grey is right in X-Men 2, when she tells Logan we flirt with the bad boy but take the good one home. It's fantasy. The bad boy is a great fantasy. Not so great in real life, but that's the whole point. That's why we are attracted to them in entertainment. We have our nice, safe men who take out the trash in real life, and we need a bit of adventure in our fantasy. So, there you go. And two, it's the tragedy. They can't truly be saved. We feel sorry for them, even if we don't realize it. We sympathize with their plight.

And when you add the fact that most of them are cast as pretty boys, that doesn't hurt either. ;)

But saving them? Um...no. No, no, no.



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fifi
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Wabbit - so glad it's not just me!!

But, on the other hand

Whimsy - romantic....yes!  but I don't see what's anti-feminist, or antiquated, or depressing about what you said.....

I thought it was an ill-concieved question to put to a panel of mainly men and Lily Loveless had already admitted she wasn't a fan of the genre.   If every woman thought/felt exactly the same way the world would be a really, really boring place!



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rubyrosettared
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I don't think Hal could be saved, he even said in the chair, to Crumb that he was 'irredeemable' and i'm sure Mitchell said something similar too (been a while, memory is a bit hazy on Old Line Up at the moment, need to remedy that someday soon) but i do think that some women would like to try.

I liked Daisy, she was unapologetic and had no regrets about being a vampire. I think perhaps after a human life of drudgery and obedience, this was her opportunity to really live, to let rip. It gave her a lot of freedom and she wasn't sorry about it.

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domino l - l - l
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Fascinating to read all your replies in this topic, the passion is inspiring.

For me, it entirely depends what Toby means by 'saved', but (present day) Hal was written in such a way as to explore his struggle and pull the audience in to sympathising with him, and with quite overt reference to addiction.

It was certainly heartbreaking to watch Hal struggle and I absolutely wanted him to be free from that, in the same way that I would want an addict to be free of their addiction. I didn't want Hal to be isolated, in pain, unable to have relationships, unable to interact with the world, unable to "live" - very strongly felt that too because of my own life situation (chronic illness / isolation).
For me this is what was compelling and powerful about the show, the whole of it, the plight of all the supernaturals not just Hal....it was this tension, the tragedy, the not being human that had me so invested in the characters.

As a vampire, it felt inevitable that he was not going to be able to 'be free', so even before we knew about what series 5 would be about or that it would be the last series, I had this thing that i wanted Hal to somehow become human again and overcome vampirism. I didn't think it through much further than that at the time, but I came to realise that if it were to happen, that would be the end of Being Human, so the one necessitated the other, which none of us wanted really...so the ending (s) we got, in my opinion, were ideal in that we got it briefly (even if it was a dream/alternate reality) but then had a 'Being Human' ending, that left it open...........

I did in fact write it to Damien in a letter, during BH 5 filming, something along the lines of I would love to see Hal somehow regain his humanity in a way that has never been explored before in Being Human, but go all the way over into his dark side in the process.

I'd also like to add that wanting Hal to become 'Bad Hal' is also saving Hal in some ways - the only time he was comfortable in his own skn was when he was aligned with his vampire self, all the angst gone.
I loved the dark side as well.. but i guess the ultmate liberation was not being a vampire any more.

I didn't want to save Hal, I wanted Hal to be able to save himself or see that he was already saved.

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fifi
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An unformed question which I would like to have asked last monday centered on salvation/redemption, what it meant and whether it was achievable for a vampire.  I never really got to grips with what I wanted to ask.....

Being Human has a religious, mostly Christian context....in which case I guess a vampire could achieve redemption through atonement - a long, long lifetime of torment - and claim their soul back from the devil.  Maybe if a vampire atones in this plane, that is the equivalent of serving time in purgatory...and so when they die (properly) they ascend....if they don't repent (and suffer a long, long lifetime of torment...) then their soul serves it's eternity in hell.  Although God is a bit of a bastard so maybe they are just eternally damned anyway!  In actual fact, I always got the impression from being human that when a vampire died, they just achieved oblivion.  Not that I've ever given the subject any consideration.....!

I guess in a general sense it's about finding peace.  The idea of hal becoming human was never an option in my mind....not only because that would be the end of the fantasy (as would peace though oblivion!), but because I can't reconcile the 'reality' of it in my own head.  It doesn't seem plausible...even in a fantasy world! 

It certainly was heartbreaking to watch Hal struggle, but I also agree that the tension, the tragedy of the situation is part of the attraction.  It is just possible that watching Hal constantly commit atrocities without remorse would ultimately be unappealing...... which I guess means that if he were to fully revert and maybe find his own peace of mind, or if, indeed he were to be able to save himself, the appeal of the fantasy would be lost.....and so, for my own entertainment, Hal must be trapped eternally in a state of flux! 

In the context of 'female fans' (women?!) and Toby's quote "they think: I can save him"  I suspect what he means is they believe they can soothe him, save him from himself....from his own darkness....from repeatedly committing transgressions - to turn him into (to quote wabbit) a nice, safe man who will take out the trash.....in essence - to tame the vampire! 



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whimsyfox
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Fabulous addition fifi, and one I want to come back to comment but can't right now...

but I'm cracking up at your last four words because in my fic I have a bit coming up two chapters from now where I use those exact words, said in jest.  I'll share an excerpt when I actually post it. wink



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wabbit89
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fifi wrote:

Wabbit - so glad it's not just me!!

But, on the other hand

Whimsy - romantic....yes!  but I don't see what's anti-feminist, or antiquated, or depressing about what you said.....

 

 Nope. Not just you!

Ans whimsy - I also don't see any anti-feminist or depressing stuff in what you said. In fact, I agree with much of it about Alex. Like I said, it's...complicated. And I get to be sometimes irritated with Alex and sometimes completely understanding of her because I get to just feel sometimes, too. ;) I have more words on this, but I'm not supposed to play online at work, so...off I go!



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rubyrosettared wrote:



I liked Daisy, she was unapologetic and had no regrets about being a vampire. I think perhaps after a human life of drudgery and obedience, this was her opportunity to really live, to let rip. It gave her a lot of freedom and she wasn't sorry about it.

 Like whimsy said about Alex - agreed. Let slip the dogs of war, so to speak. ;)



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wabbit89
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domino wrote:


...so the ending (s) we got, in my opinion, were ideal in that we got it briefly (even if it was a dream/alternate reality) but then had a 'Being Human' ending, that left it open...........

 I agree completely. Everyone's headcanon is okay, and I like that. ;)



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whimsyfox wrote:

 

It was her doubt that made him snap into bad Hal, not the blood.


-- Edited by whimsyfox on Sunday 10th of November 2013 07:51:27 AM

 Get out from behind that couch, lady! No hiding for his post! It's fantastic!

Also, the line I quoted? YES. So much yes.



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domino l - l - l
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Wonderful article on the BFI event and panel:

Cool Gothic & The New Vampire BFI Discussion – In The Flesh, Being Human, Buffy & The Fades | mcmbuzz



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*** This topic has been moved to the 'Being Human' section for better placement ***

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fifi
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That is an excellent article.....wish I could remember half of what was said - probably should've taken notes!!  Wish they'd hurry up with this video....



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domino l - l - l
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When Rhidian sent me the quotes from notes he made during the event , (posted the Damien and Toby ones already earlier in this topic) it did include some from the other panelists, which I just realised I could have shared already, sorry! here is the complete list and crossing fingers for the footage really soon!

 

"I was 14 at the time, and I was watching some very dark stuff" Toby Whithouse on his early horror experiences

 

"I used to dress up as Dracula. I've always been secretly addicted to horror" Damien Molony

 

"It's a very primal thing, and you want to test yourself. You're being scared in a very safe environment" Toby Whithouse

 

"A lot of Gothic drama is horror but really beautiful to watch" Lily Loveless

 

"We've moved on partly - greatly - thanks to Joss Whedon. Joss brought humour into it"

Anthony Head on the 'new' Gothic

 

"We have a noble tradition of suggestion and implication in Britain, because we've had to be creative with very meagre budgets" Toby Whithouse

 

"In Being Human we didn't have a lot of money. It had to be inventive. It had to be character-led" Toby Whithouse

 

"James Whale's Frankenstein was a great influence. We learned a lot from that film about humanising the monster" Dominic Mitchell

 

"It's curious reading Dracula as a grown-up. You realise it's about fear of the foreigner, fear of women, and the fear of menstruation" Toby Whithouse

 

"In Science Fiction, aliens became heroes, and exactly the same thing happened with the vampire" Toby Whithouse

 

"The good Hal is so terrified of blood .. and sex - it's a very carnal fluid" Damien Molony

 

"The beauty of getting to play a vampire who is 500 years old, is there are so many facets to that" Damien Molony

 

"I suppose sex and blood and vampires and the AIDS things all got very intertwined" Damien Molony

 

"The vampire is the ultimate bad boy: they think: I can save him." Toby Whithouse on female fans

 

 "People were furious when the handsome mass murderer was reported to the police. Audiences said: 'You cow'" Toby Whithouse

 

"With Joss it was allegorical. The last person that you expected to save the world was the blonde girl, who usually in horror films is the first one to go" Anthony Head

 

"When you're a teenager, you feel a bit like a creature anyway. An outsider" Dominic Mitchell

 

"I see it as a joy that Toby gave me so much to play with". Damien Molony

 

"I did so much when I was working on Hal about drug addicts.. " Damien Molony

 

"I've never watched True Blood or those shows. I always looked back to Nosferatu and Dracula" Damien Molony

 

"We want things to be magical, even if they're not" Dominic Mitchell

 

"Yeah, why not? It would be great" Damien Molony on becoming a vampire

 

"In Being Human we had characters discussing what humanity is.. It allows you to ask the big questions - without necessarily coming up with the answers" Toby Whithouse

 

"If you're shit-scared, humour is a counter-point to that, and I think these shows are all great at doing that" Farren Blackburn

 

"I thought The Fades was fucking great, and it was a tragedy when it was cancelled after the first series" Danny Leigh



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fifi
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At last!

http://player.bfi.org.uk/player/Fwc3dnaDoZobGvpWMbSjgYjvTYmWS7xK/default/morelikethis



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domino l - l - l
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woohoo! yay halyes I was just coming here to post the link fifi, thank you for doing it!

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PradaKat
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My ipad won't play it. It forces you to install the BFI player app which then just crashes! So I will gave to try and watch it on a computer tomorrow. Boooooo...

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domino l - l - l
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something to look forward to Kat?

not all the quotes that rhidian sent us are on this footage... but it is still an awesome treat for those of us who were unable to attend to see Damien and the great Lord Toby speaking!

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wabbit89
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Usual UK viewing only. Just FYI. Fellow non-Brits, use your VPN or proxy or whatever.



-- Edited by wabbit89 on Friday 22nd of November 2013 01:00:29 PM

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whimsyfox
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It's a shame it's not easily viewable outside UK.  I was going to post a link on FB for my US peeps.

 

Such a treat!  I hope Rhidian has luck convincing them to share more, though I'm not going to hold my breath.  Very thrilled to see at least a little bit.   There were actually some very interesting questions and answers.  Just as these shows break out of the stereotypes, the Q & A brought up things one normally doesn't see discussed about shows/films/etc.  Not your typical interview where you want to roll your eyes at the inane questions.  Though I'm told we're missing out on the one question directed at Damien about sexy vampires.  I SO want to see his answer!

 



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It wasn't his answer as such, more his embarrassment and sweet laughing at it...gorgeous... *sigh*

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domino l - l - l
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I loved Damien's response in the very first question...about the camera work in Being Human, it really is a particularly integral feature of the show and although i knew this, it was good to be reminded. Both the actors trying to shift all credit to the crew who do not get nearly enough credit for their work, generous, intelligent answers.

For members trying to watch the video outside the uk, you could try a VPN service, for our recommendations, click here



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Su Hemming
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I like the video, it gives a good variety of the whole panels answers to questions which must have been a slight task since toby and antony did the majority of the talking!

I SO want to write up this event in a blog but i dont think i can remember enough of it to make it interesting!

I may just do it so ive got a record of it in my blog...

Shame the question put to damien about sexy vampires wasnt answered as you said whimsy. His reaction was hilarious and then in his answer he said sex about 50 times.....lol!! x

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